Wednesday, July 14, 2010

"I'm a Gun Owner But......"

I've discussed these types of individuals several times before. The most famous case is that of Jim Zumbo. For those of you unfamiliar w/ this bit of firearm history, a few years ago, Jim Zumbo, a prominent hunter and shooter w/ endorsements, TV shows, you name it, called semi-auto sporters like AR-15's "Terrorist Rifles" and felt they should be banned. This got linked to and w/i a week, he had been dumped by all of his sponsors and his shows canceled.

Unfortunately he's not alone. Invariably the conversation w/ these types of individuals starts out w/, as the title says, "I'm a gun owner but..." and then goes downhill from there. The most common form that I've encountered is a hunter who doesn't see a 'need' for 'assault weapons' and/or pistols combined w/ a dislike for the 'extremist' NRA. The reasons for their opposition usually contains the traditional Brady-esque talking points like 'bullet hoses', supporting registration, etc. which is all OK because they'll 'never come after my huntin' guns'. This is also the same type of individual that the 'American Hunters and Shooters Assoc.' preyed upon to get what little membership they had.

These are some of the most difficult individuals to debate w/ in that they are firearm owners so they know and understand most of the nomenclature but they're rooted in their own selfishness/bigotry so are difficult to convince. We can't just laugh at them or dismiss them like we can w/ most of the hard-core gun control advocates.

I'll admit that I've had very little luck in this endeavor. What I have had though has come from showing them that 'Yes Virginia, they ARE after your hunting guns' such as the Joyce Funded VPC trying to re-label bolt action rifles as 'Intermediate Sniper Rifles' or the statements by the president of IANSA, Rebecca Peters and which US organizations belong to her group. And still the discussion usually loops back to the 'need' claim and 'they won't ban these' arguments.

So who has had luck w/ this class and how have you done it? Conversely, what nonsense have you encountered?

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JD said...

First off I'll say I'm 39 and I started hunting with my family at age 9. So if any fudds read this they can kiss my a-- that I'm not a "real hunter". And yes, I only hunt deer with a DPMS .308 and I have never needed more than 1 shot to kill one.
here's a classic exchange with a fudd gunner:
fudd: nobody needs an assault rifle.
me: what do you need your bolt-gun for?
fudd: hunting!
me: thats great, thats one of the reasons I have my gun to, i just prefer a different style of gun than you.
fudd: yea but you look like your going to war with that thing.
me: so do you, the main military sniper rifle is the remington model 700.
fudd: nobody needs an semi-auto for hunting!
me: nobody needs any rifle for hunting, use a bow. it's called the bill of rights not the bill of needs. I don't care for bolt-guns but I would never support any ban on them.
fudd: FU!
me: FU 2 elmer!
The chances of converting a fudd to being pro-AR are slim but everyone we convert is one less against us. I've turned a few over but most of the time it just ends up being a waste of time with those gun snobs.
Good luck fellow auto-loaders. and to all the fudds out there, we ain't going away!

Weer'd Beard said...

Yep, just show them England, or Australia. Most center-fire rifles are gone, most pump shotguns are gone, and you need to be a wealthy land-owner and keep up with an expensive and onerous permitting system to just own your "Politically Correct Guns".

Show them Ted Kennedy's testimony about "Armor Piecing ammunition", and ask them what their favorite sporting cartridge is, and tell them if that's "Armor Piercing" or not.

And one BIG thing to note is hunting is essentially a pastime. Its a GAME. If they're comming for guns, what will you have to argue why they can't take your armor-piercing "sniper rifle"?

I mean its not like you'll starve if there are no ducks or deer in your freezer.

The 2nd Amendment is about defending your life, from both violent elements, to foreign invaders, to a tyrannical government. It is not about ducks and deer.

Armed Partisan said...

True story:
My friend and I are on a local range blasting away with our SKSs, My Mini-14, and the then much coveted Colt AR-15 SP-1 (this was 2002, during the AWB and I paid bookoo bucks for it). A Fudd walks by during a cease fire and says "Those things should be illegal!"
Knowing exactly what he meant, I ponder the situation for a moment and look at him and say:
"What? Firearms? I agree, only trained Law Enforcement professionals like myself and my partner here should be even allowed on this range!" (I was bullshitting, because I was just a USMC L/Cpl at the time, and my buddy was USAF)so I looked the part.
"No! That's not what I meant!"
"What did you mean, sir?"
"I meant assault rifles!"
"We're from the Department of Homeland Security. Are you saying we aren't qualified to use these weapons... sir? Do you have a license for that sniper rifle, sir?" I said motioning the bolt gun he had been shooting that was on the table.
"What? No! I don't need one!"
"The hell you don't! That looks like a sniper rifle to me! You realize it's now a felony to possess a Sniper Rifle in the United States without a license?"
"It's not a Sniper Rifle!"
"According to the Patriot Act it is! You tellin me how to do my job? Let me see some I.D.!"

My friend is cracking up at this point and I'm trying to keep a straight face. The guy went from completely terrified to obviously infuriated as it dawned on him that the two twenty somethings were obviously screwing with him, and he left the next time the range went hot. I guess he needed to change his drawers, but I'm pretty sure he took my point.

hazmat said...

My own parents. When I got into 'politically incorrect' rifles, my father couldn't see the 'need' for such a thing. My mother was kind of ambivalent about the subject. They both had been raised in the traditional mold of the '50s and '60s where bolt and lever guns were the be-all, end-all.

But I kept coming home with either a newly purchased or newly built rifle. And eventually, the brick wall started to crumble.

Two things have happened over the last 4 yrs. First, they've grown to accept me and my 'eclectic' gun collection and have even talked openly about getting something similar to what I own; partly because each got an opportunity to shoot some of my collection, and partly because of the current political environment. And second, they both are now CCW holders, due in no small part to my constant urgings about taking responsibility for their own safety.

Not bad, eh?