Thursday, August 8, 2013

PAGV: Doubling Down On The Fabrications

They respond:
Visit the Parents Against Gun Violence page on the web at to read what they *actually* say (since here you only get a deliberate distortion of the post.) PAGV provides every different metric for which data is available to compare violence in Chicago vs other cities: MSA vs MSA; city vs. city; gun violence vs. gun violence -- in *all* cases, Chicago is not the most violent city, by a large margin. PAGV makes no claim that this reflects anything about Chicago's gun laws. The only point they try to make is a rebuttal of the frequent and erroneous claim that Chicago is the murder capital of the US. PAGV also provides eight links to news stories and statistical records to corroborate the claim. If you take Days of Our Trailer's word for it without actually reading the PAGV post, you're cheating yourself out of the opportunity to use your own judgment.
Nevermind the fact I provided a link to their post.

So not only is the PAGO not fully conversant in statistics or firearm laws, they also are unfamiliar w/ things called 'logical fallacies'. 

They make the claim "One argument we've seen ad nauseum is that Chicago has extraordinarily high violence due to its gun control laws." and "the frequent and erroneous claim that Chicago is the murder capital of the US. These are known as 'strawmen'.  Then use faulty statistics to defeat this strawman. They also include numerous cities that ALSO have strict gun laws and have higher crime than Chicago.

See, again, the chart stated 'Chicago, Illinois' yet included 6.8 million people that DON'T live in Chicago nor fall under Chicago's gun laws.  That led to the anti-gun fanatics at the CSGV (who the original post was discussing) to tout it to the skies as 'gun extremist lies' that Chicago DOES have higher homicide rates than the areas outside of the city (5-6x). 

Then for 'Gun homicides' they did the same thing, adding in near 7m people who DON'T live under Chicago's laws. They completely ignore this fact in the post I reference it to and instead repeat their MSA and City numbers. Makes you wonder if they're dense or deliberately dishonest.

The dishonest side stepping was blatant in their original post which stated:
especially since the city and the state have porous borders through which people can easily bring guns from neighboring jurisdictions
So it's not the gun laws but it's the 'loose gun laws' of other places. Their 'planks' consist mostly of the usual tripe of banning 'high capacity magazines', registration, 'safe storage', banning private sales, etc. w/ a few token 'fix mental health' bits thrown in.

So there is a stronger correlations to crime w/ gangs, drugs, poverty and collapsing infrastructures than there are to legal firearm ownership.  And of course we won't see them go after that. Firearms are a much easier target to demonize.

Unorganized Militia Gear Unorganized Militia Gear
Follow TrailerDays on Twitter
Unorganized Militia Gear


Anonymous said...

The only claim that the post on the PAGV page makes is that Chicago does not have the highest murder rate. If you think that's incorrect, please define your criteria for "murder rate" and then list the top ten cities with the most murders-per-capita.

Thirdpower said...

You folks really need to learn how to read. I never said anything about 'highest murder rate'. That's your strawman ( I linked that too, read up on it)

What I've done is disassembled many of your Chicago numbers and shown how they're inaccurate.

Rob Crawford said...

They're troubled by our "porous borders" between states?

So they're in favor of requiring internal travel permits? Border-crossing stations between the states?

Braden Lynch said...

The only data point/statistic that matters is the tiny sample set with just you and your family in it.

Would you be safer with a firearm to defend yourself against criminals or without one?

I am safer with a firearm than being defenseless and no one has the right to restrict or take my firearms. It really is that simple.

Robert said...

Y'know, if the problem is easily available guns, like they claim, why would the buyers go to the trouble of going all the way into Chicago before committing their crimes? Why wouldn't they just go ahead and commit the crimes where the guns were? Oh, that's right, because then they'd be risking the chance of running into an armed victim. That and the fact that the people that commit the crimes tend to hang out in hellholes like Chicago.