More "reasoned discourse" from the anti-gun crowd. Just read the comments in the last three posts. It says it all. Homophobia, discrimination, racial stereotyping, logical fallacies. The works.
I'm sure Ms. Lewisburg, PA's parents are SO proud of their little girls language and debating skills.
Saturday, December 8, 2007
Friday, December 7, 2007
Jealous?
Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, disagrees. He said European countries have enacted effective gun control laws and that U.S. politicians are cowed by the gun lobby as exemplified by the National Rifle Association.
"They've got politicians nervous about anything that's even got the word gun in it."
"They've got politicians nervous about anything that's even got the word gun in it."
Guns designed for the military?
Thursday, December 6, 2007
Paul and Gonzo have been talking
Paul decides to walk in the blood of the Omaha victims and use it to make a list of shootings.
Of course he plays the usual Brady sleight of hand by not stating that nearly every single one was in a Brady endorsed "Gun Free Zone". Two of them listed are in Chicago, where handguns are banned.
Of course he plays the usual Brady sleight of hand by not stating that nearly every single one was in a Brady endorsed "Gun Free Zone". Two of them listed are in Chicago, where handguns are banned.
Expert "Only Ones say "Umm"..
Over protecting people at mall.
Don't arm security guards. Okay, that's reasonable. The majority of them are just minimum wage private employees w/ keys and radios.
Set up Airstrip 1. They even admit people would stop shopping there.
And then the usual PSH over the "Wild West":
Should these private security guards be armed? "Absolutely not," said Greene. Greene said if a security officer were to pull a gun on an armed individual in a mall, it could result in "the gunfight at the 'OK corral,' and then we might have 23 people killed instead of eight."
Yeah, cause what's actually happening is better than what your fringe imagination comes up with even though nothing like that has happened anywhere and in fact limited the carnage in Utah.
That's why they won't talk about allowing CCW in the malls. Because they're afraid. Afraid of people being able to defend themselves and not cowtow to their authority and afraid of losing justification for their jobs. If we could defend ourselves, there's less need for the police to be ever-present.
It's telling that not one of these "Experts" brought that up or at least the media didn't report it.
Don't arm security guards. Okay, that's reasonable. The majority of them are just minimum wage private employees w/ keys and radios.
Set up Airstrip 1. They even admit people would stop shopping there.
And then the usual PSH over the "Wild West":
Should these private security guards be armed? "Absolutely not," said Greene. Greene said if a security officer were to pull a gun on an armed individual in a mall, it could result in "the gunfight at the 'OK corral,' and then we might have 23 people killed instead of eight."
Yeah, cause what's actually happening is better than what your fringe imagination comes up with even though nothing like that has happened anywhere and in fact limited the carnage in Utah.
That's why they won't talk about allowing CCW in the malls. Because they're afraid. Afraid of people being able to defend themselves and not cowtow to their authority and afraid of losing justification for their jobs. If we could defend ourselves, there's less need for the police to be ever-present.
It's telling that not one of these "Experts" brought that up or at least the media didn't report it.
"Gun Control not a partisan issue"
due to the inclusion of one RINO in the Illinois Legislature.
Dick Durbin fawns all over (R) rep Mark Kirk at the ICHV awards and prays for more gun control laws that obviously aren't working.
Rep. Kirk cites the need for more gun control due the large number of gang members in Chicago and throws out the PSH "Terrorist Card":
"Kirk said the infamous Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13) gang known for its violence not only has members in suburban Lake County, but has sent members to Iran for training."
Obviously integrity must not be a factor in the awards as they also presented one to Sen Kotowski. He was the one that was caught red-handed lying to the legislature in order to pass a .50 Cal Ban.
Sheriff Laine, a co-author of the Joyce Foundation funded IACP report (I know, redundant) is apparently a FUDD:
"Safety issues are my focus," said Laine, a highly decorated Vietnam veteran who has won trophies for his target shooting as a police officer. "We have target shooters. We have hunters. They are not an issue for us."
Laine said he wants the law to target military weapons designed for killing many people, guns and ammunition designed to thwart police, and loopholes in the law that make it easier for criminals to get guns and hide their illegal activities.
"Ammunition designed to thwart police"? What does that mean? Oh, right. Microstamping and Ballistic Fingerprinting. That, along w/ any ammo that can penetrate class IIa armor. Say bye bye to your 9mm, .44's and .45's.
I sent an e-mail to the author. Let's see if he responds.
Dick Durbin fawns all over (R) rep Mark Kirk at the ICHV awards and prays for more gun control laws that obviously aren't working.
Rep. Kirk cites the need for more gun control due the large number of gang members in Chicago and throws out the PSH "Terrorist Card":
"Kirk said the infamous Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13) gang known for its violence not only has members in suburban Lake County, but has sent members to Iran for training."
Obviously integrity must not be a factor in the awards as they also presented one to Sen Kotowski. He was the one that was caught red-handed lying to the legislature in order to pass a .50 Cal Ban.
Sheriff Laine, a co-author of the Joyce Foundation funded IACP report (I know, redundant) is apparently a FUDD:
"Safety issues are my focus," said Laine, a highly decorated Vietnam veteran who has won trophies for his target shooting as a police officer. "We have target shooters. We have hunters. They are not an issue for us."
Laine said he wants the law to target military weapons designed for killing many people, guns and ammunition designed to thwart police, and loopholes in the law that make it easier for criminals to get guns and hide their illegal activities.
"Ammunition designed to thwart police"? What does that mean? Oh, right. Microstamping and Ballistic Fingerprinting. That, along w/ any ammo that can penetrate class IIa armor. Say bye bye to your 9mm, .44's and .45's.
I sent an e-mail to the author. Let's see if he responds.
*Sigh*. I hate being right.
Troubled individual? Check.
Semi-auto "assault rifle"? Check.
Gun Free Zone? Check
More Gun Control calls? Check.
Update: In an apparent effort to keep garnering PSH, they've now changed the claim of it being an SKS to it being an "AK-47 assault rifle".
"Chief: Shooter cased store, came back with AK-47"
Read this part:
"Warren said Hawkins' body and the AK-47 with SKS 7.66 mm ammunition were found on the store's third floor."
I guess SKS didn't get enough attention.
For all the Google hits I'm getting on this one. The SKS and AK-47 use the exact same ammo. It's 7.62 x 39.
Semi-auto "assault rifle"? Check.
Gun Free Zone? Check
More Gun Control calls? Check.
Update: In an apparent effort to keep garnering PSH, they've now changed the claim of it being an SKS to it being an "AK-47 assault rifle".
"Chief: Shooter cased store, came back with AK-47"
Read this part:
"Warren said Hawkins' body and the AK-47 with SKS 7.66 mm ammunition were found on the store's third floor."
I guess SKS didn't get enough attention.
For all the Google hits I'm getting on this one. The SKS and AK-47 use the exact same ammo. It's 7.62 x 39.
Wednesday, December 5, 2007
Lovely. Here we go again.
Nine killed in shooting at Omaha mall, including gunman
Ok. I can already tell you the rest of the story. Troubled individual. Semi-auto rifle that everyone will call an AK-47 and/or "assault rifle", mall rule against having weapons.
Then, calls for more civilian disarmament. Using the dead for political gain. Calls for more money.
PGP has more.
I called the first one:
The alleged shooter, a 19-year-old man, left a suicide note stating, "I'm going out in style," a local news station reported.
Had history of issues and a record.
An interesting little piece of editing:
"Wednesday's shooting was the second mass shooting at a mall this year. In February, nine people were shot, five of them fatally, at Trolley Square mall in Salt Lake City. The gunman, 18-year-old Sulejman Talovic, was shot and killed by police."
In reality, it was an off-duty police officer who was carrying against the rules of the mall.
Ok. I can already tell you the rest of the story. Troubled individual. Semi-auto rifle that everyone will call an AK-47 and/or "assault rifle", mall rule against having weapons.
Then, calls for more civilian disarmament. Using the dead for political gain. Calls for more money.
PGP has more.
I called the first one:
The alleged shooter, a 19-year-old man, left a suicide note stating, "I'm going out in style," a local news station reported.
Had history of issues and a record.
An interesting little piece of editing:
"Wednesday's shooting was the second mass shooting at a mall this year. In February, nine people were shot, five of them fatally, at Trolley Square mall in Salt Lake City. The gunman, 18-year-old Sulejman Talovic, was shot and killed by police."
In reality, it was an off-duty police officer who was carrying against the rules of the mall.
Well, that goes without saying...
As much as I like Jodie Foster as an actress,( I mean really, can you watch Carny and not have to readjust yourself?) her political opinions leave much to be desired. At least now she's admitting that she has no idea what she's talking about.
But she also said that after working in entertainment for 42 years, "there's no way you can do that and not be as nutty as a fruitcake."
"I always feel like something of an impostor. I don't know what I'm doing,"
But she also said that after working in entertainment for 42 years, "there's no way you can do that and not be as nutty as a fruitcake."
"I always feel like something of an impostor. I don't know what I'm doing,"
Even the Cartoons get it..
For those who get their political perspectives from watching the Simpsons, my Comic trumps yours:
The "Only Ones" CYOA
The examples used in this article clearly show that the CPD is out of control and that it's retained its tradition of being a Good Ol' Boys club with legal guns.
This says it all:
"Once a case is closed, it's closed," said Sylvia VanWitzenburg.
"Your testimony is, once you close out a [police shooting] case, no matter what new information comes in, you're not going to go back and review it?" asked the attorney representing Ware's family.
"Correct," she replied.
This says it all:
"Once a case is closed, it's closed," said Sylvia VanWitzenburg.
"Your testimony is, once you close out a [police shooting] case, no matter what new information comes in, you're not going to go back and review it?" asked the attorney representing Ware's family.
"Correct," she replied.
Tuesday, December 4, 2007
Wow. Just Wow
This proverbial piece of wisdom from Paul's most notorious sycophant left me nearly speechless:
IN response to this question:
Here's a question for you Kelli. You seem to hate the current administration yet are willing to cede more power and authority to it.
Were Bush to declare himself president for life and the 2008 elections null and void, would it be treason for the populace to rise up to re-establish the elected Gov't?
In simple language for you dmeadows (because you appear to always be confused & rarely understand) ~ I don't care how oppressive this government, or any other future government, becomes. I would NEVER advocate using the U.S. Constitution to justify taking up arms against them.
Nor should you.
That's called 'treason.'
Clear enough?
KELLI
If you were armed ... absolutely, it would be treason in my book. And, I would never advocate doing that, nor would I willingly participate in taking up arms against this or any other political body/group/government I despised. I wouldn't even take up arms against the gun lobby. There are other ways to fight. More humane ones, at that.
KELLI
Paul,
I have to admit that I'm shocked to repeatedly find comments/posts from the pro-gun side stating that the Constitution affords them some sort of legitimacy to take up arms against our government, if it were ever to become "tyrannical" ~ thus, they must remain armed for this purpose, among others. They have no constitutional right to advocate treason against this or any other government they find oppressive.
Kelli
She's gone off the deep end. Basically she's saying she opposes the very founding of this nation and would even consider the Warsaw Uprising treasonous. This girl does more for our side than a dozen blogs.
As as aside, notice the way Kelli's post is prioritized. She hates the "gun lobby" more than Apartheid South Africa, Stalinist Russia (who killed tens of millions of people), and the numerous military Junta's across the world that are killing and terrorizing their people.
One smart thing she did say:
"I wouldn't even take up arms against the gun lobby."
Probably a smart move. They're the ones w/ the guns.
Update: Now she's resorted to outright lying to defend her actions.
Right now, right here ~ are a loud band of Gun Extremists who are misusing the Constitution and using their past or present affiliations with the U.S. Armed Forces (eg. Thirdpower, Zen21tao...) to threaten ~ either playfully or not ~ to overthrow with arms an elected government.
I'm wondering what message board she's reading.
IN response to this question:
Here's a question for you Kelli. You seem to hate the current administration yet are willing to cede more power and authority to it.
Were Bush to declare himself president for life and the 2008 elections null and void, would it be treason for the populace to rise up to re-establish the elected Gov't?
In simple language for you dmeadows (because you appear to always be confused & rarely understand) ~ I don't care how oppressive this government, or any other future government, becomes. I would NEVER advocate using the U.S. Constitution to justify taking up arms against them.
Nor should you.
That's called 'treason.'
Clear enough?
KELLI
If you were armed ... absolutely, it would be treason in my book. And, I would never advocate doing that, nor would I willingly participate in taking up arms against this or any other political body/group/government I despised. I wouldn't even take up arms against the gun lobby. There are other ways to fight. More humane ones, at that.
KELLI
Paul,
I have to admit that I'm shocked to repeatedly find comments/posts from the pro-gun side stating that the Constitution affords them some sort of legitimacy to take up arms against our government, if it were ever to become "tyrannical" ~ thus, they must remain armed for this purpose, among others. They have no constitutional right to advocate treason against this or any other government they find oppressive.
Kelli
She's gone off the deep end. Basically she's saying she opposes the very founding of this nation and would even consider the Warsaw Uprising treasonous. This girl does more for our side than a dozen blogs.
As as aside, notice the way Kelli's post is prioritized. She hates the "gun lobby" more than Apartheid South Africa, Stalinist Russia (who killed tens of millions of people), and the numerous military Junta's across the world that are killing and terrorizing their people.
One smart thing she did say:
"I wouldn't even take up arms against the gun lobby."
Probably a smart move. They're the ones w/ the guns.
Update: Now she's resorted to outright lying to defend her actions.
Right now, right here ~ are a loud band of Gun Extremists who are misusing the Constitution and using their past or present affiliations with the U.S. Armed Forces (eg. Thirdpower, Zen21tao...) to threaten ~ either playfully or not ~ to overthrow with arms an elected government.
I'm wondering what message board she's reading.
Monday, December 3, 2007
Some people never learn
Laura Washington blames gun owners for more crimes.
So Laura, you lambast bloggers for allegedly being in the service of the NRA yet quote Hemenway who is bought and paid for by the Joyce Foundation.
The rest is just the usual anti-gun ad hominems and ad personams.
The Liberty Zone is less polite.
So Laura, you lambast bloggers for allegedly being in the service of the NRA yet quote Hemenway who is bought and paid for by the Joyce Foundation.
The rest is just the usual anti-gun ad hominems and ad personams.
The Liberty Zone is less polite.
Hoplophobe hoops, Circa 1970
Kaveman made an interesting suggestion on the Brady/HuffPo Blog so I decided to look up the IL Constitution. I found the annotated version from the IL.gov site.
Here's what it has to say about Militias:
SECTION 1. MEMBERSHIP
The State militia consists of all able-bodied persons residing in the State except those exempted by law.
The "militia" described here includes both the state"s organized militia who have received military training, and its unorganized militia"composed of all other able-bodied persons who are not exempt. The corresponding provision in the 1870 Constitution was narrower,including in the unorganized militia only able-bodied men aged 18 to 45.
"All able-boded persons". So that, unlike the Federal version, includes women. Yep, I'm a member of the militia so maintain a right to own firearms under that argument.
Then we get to firearms and how the PuSH'ers were intellectually dishonest even then:
SECTION 22. RIGHT TO ARMS
Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and
bear arms shall not be infringed.
The committee explanation stated that “a citizen has the right to possess and make reasonable use of arms that law-abiding persons commonly employ for purposes of recreation or the protection of person and property. Laws that attempted to ban all possession or use of such arms . . . would be invalid.”200
However:
However, the delegate who explained the committee proposal to the full convention stated four times on the floor that it would not prevent a complete ban on handguns.201 A nearly total ban on handguns in Morton Grove was upheld under this section by the U.S. Court of Appeals in Chicago.202 The Illinois Supreme Court, by 4-3 vote, also held that the Morton Grove ordinance did not violate this section. Vigorous dissents by the minority judges illustrate the closeness of the question.203
The U.S. Court of Appeals also held that Chicago’s ban on buying handguns beginning in 1982 did not violate the U.S. Constitution, affirming a federal district court decision that had also upheld the ordinance against attack under this section.204
So you have a right to "Commonly employed firearms" yet don't have a right to "commonly employed firearms". Gotcha.
I see who the "Activist Judges" and hypocritical politicians are and it's not on our side.
Here's what it has to say about Militias:
SECTION 1. MEMBERSHIP
The State militia consists of all able-bodied persons residing in the State except those exempted by law.
The "militia" described here includes both the state"s organized militia who have received military training, and its unorganized militia"composed of all other able-bodied persons who are not exempt. The corresponding provision in the 1870 Constitution was narrower,including in the unorganized militia only able-bodied men aged 18 to 45.
"All able-boded persons". So that, unlike the Federal version, includes women. Yep, I'm a member of the militia so maintain a right to own firearms under that argument.
Then we get to firearms and how the PuSH'ers were intellectually dishonest even then:
SECTION 22. RIGHT TO ARMS
Subject only to the police power, the right of the individual citizen to keep and
bear arms shall not be infringed.
The committee explanation stated that “a citizen has the right to possess and make reasonable use of arms that law-abiding persons commonly employ for purposes of recreation or the protection of person and property. Laws that attempted to ban all possession or use of such arms . . . would be invalid.”200
However:
However, the delegate who explained the committee proposal to the full convention stated four times on the floor that it would not prevent a complete ban on handguns.201 A nearly total ban on handguns in Morton Grove was upheld under this section by the U.S. Court of Appeals in Chicago.202 The Illinois Supreme Court, by 4-3 vote, also held that the Morton Grove ordinance did not violate this section. Vigorous dissents by the minority judges illustrate the closeness of the question.203
The U.S. Court of Appeals also held that Chicago’s ban on buying handguns beginning in 1982 did not violate the U.S. Constitution, affirming a federal district court decision that had also upheld the ordinance against attack under this section.204
So you have a right to "Commonly employed firearms" yet don't have a right to "commonly employed firearms". Gotcha.
I see who the "Activist Judges" and hypocritical politicians are and it's not on our side.
The "Only Ones" not practicing "Safe Storage"..
I guess she wasn't trained enough to know about teaching your kids firearm safety. She was the "Only One" so noone else should have touched it, right?
Maybe she should have gotten a clue her kid was a shit:
Other neighbors said the brother had been suspended from school after bringing a gun to class, but authorities would not confirm that happened.
The family lawyer did, however:
McDermott also addressed the 15-year-old's arrest for allegedly having brought a gun to school. He said the teen, who felt threatened, was trying to protect himself, and that the two incidents were not connected.
Why weren't charges enforced the first time instead of only an "arrest"? Why didn't the mom pull her head out of her ass and lock up her gun after her kid was shown to be completely irresponsible. It was a 15 yr old w/ an illegal handgun. Does this mean that it needs to be made MORE illegal? Most likely an "Only One" favor.
Will we see a call from the Anti's that all correctional officers should store their firearms in a collective armory?
Update: He's being charged w/ involuntary manslaughter as a minor.
Maybe she should have gotten a clue her kid was a shit:
Other neighbors said the brother had been suspended from school after bringing a gun to class, but authorities would not confirm that happened.
The family lawyer did, however:
McDermott also addressed the 15-year-old's arrest for allegedly having brought a gun to school. He said the teen, who felt threatened, was trying to protect himself, and that the two incidents were not connected.
Why weren't charges enforced the first time instead of only an "arrest"? Why didn't the mom pull her head out of her ass and lock up her gun after her kid was shown to be completely irresponsible. It was a 15 yr old w/ an illegal handgun. Does this mean that it needs to be made MORE illegal? Most likely an "Only One" favor.
Will we see a call from the Anti's that all correctional officers should store their firearms in a collective armory?
Update: He's being charged w/ involuntary manslaughter as a minor.
Cross-cultural naivete..
It's not just a European or American trait among college students.
On Chavez's defeat at the polls:
"At least now we have the guarantee that Chavez will leave power," said Valeria Aguirre, a 22-year-old student who had braved tear gas during street protests."
You keep believing that kid. This is a guy who has stacked all the cards in his favor to keep power the rest of his life. He just misjudged the timing on this one a little to make it "legal". Do you honestly think a little thing like a "vote" will stop him?
On Chavez's defeat at the polls:
"At least now we have the guarantee that Chavez will leave power," said Valeria Aguirre, a 22-year-old student who had braved tear gas during street protests."
You keep believing that kid. This is a guy who has stacked all the cards in his favor to keep power the rest of his life. He just misjudged the timing on this one a little to make it "legal". Do you honestly think a little thing like a "vote" will stop him?
Sunday, December 2, 2007
Lather, Rinse, Repeat...
I guess when all of your arguments are shot down, repeating yourself in a new post is your only hope.
Now Paul's trying to divert from the Individual v Collective right argument and going for the "Militia purpose" bit again. They'll never learn.
For those of you unfamiliar w/ Paul's rants on HuffPo, they are the bastard stepchildren of the old Brady Blog which no longer accepts comments. Look up "Reasoned Discourse" on SaysUncle. It's a fun story. Anywhoo, since they were being crossposted, most of the "Old Crew" shifted over there to continue the fun. The usual pattern is such:
Paul Posts.
A few BC supporters make fun of "Gun Nuts" and the NRA. Rarely w/ any supporting evidence.
We start trashing their arguments.
Kelli is the only Anti who sticks around and does everything she can to garner attention to herself.
A Pro-Gun chatroom ensues
Paul posts something new to cover his tracks.
See post header.
Now Paul's trying to divert from the Individual v Collective right argument and going for the "Militia purpose" bit again. They'll never learn.
For those of you unfamiliar w/ Paul's rants on HuffPo, they are the bastard stepchildren of the old Brady Blog which no longer accepts comments. Look up "Reasoned Discourse" on SaysUncle. It's a fun story. Anywhoo, since they were being crossposted, most of the "Old Crew" shifted over there to continue the fun. The usual pattern is such:
Paul Posts.
A few BC supporters make fun of "Gun Nuts" and the NRA. Rarely w/ any supporting evidence.
We start trashing their arguments.
Kelli is the only Anti who sticks around and does everything she can to garner attention to herself.
A Pro-Gun chatroom ensues
Paul posts something new to cover his tracks.
See post header.
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